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  • quanta - Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - link

    Isn't DLP design rather unreliable? After all, it involves mechanically moving millions of microscopic mirrors to create brightness, and there is no easy way to oil these tiny joints when the chip gets old. Since each mirror is moving thousand of times a second, dead pixels can develop rather quickly. As a side effect of moving all these mirror, won't the chips get noisy as well?
  • PrinceGaz - Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - link

    Heh, as soon as I read the bit about mobo manufacturers confirming what most of us already know; that nVidia has abandoned SoundStorm and it will not be returning in anything like its original form (DD encoding) in the forseeable future.

    Just because the Inq reports on something doesn't make it gospel truth, much of what they post is rumours and they have been known to be wrong in the past ;) As for the nVidia chairman saying SS is returning in a surprising form, that could mean just about anything except what some people here are hoping for. A return of the original SS or an updated version of it would be totally unsurprising so he is effectively ruling that out.

    Could one of the SS zealots who believes it will make a return with PCIe please explain to me why it needs more bandwidth than what PCI can provide? Surely if the card is doing all the encoding, all that needs to be sent to it is the raw audio data which is minimal. Even the very highest quality 8-channel 32-bit 192khz sampling-rate uncompressed audio needs under 6MB/s of bandwidth which is easily handled by PCI, so I fail to understand why PCIe would make a difference. If there were sufficient consumer demand for a DD encoder, somebody would have already made one for PCI, so you're deluding yourself if you think the only reason they aren't available is that it needs the increased bandwidth offered by PCIe. Unless of course you have evidence which suggests otherwise and I'd be interested in reading it.

    Rather than waiting for the return of SS, I suggest you buy a few decent cables and hook up your soundcard to your amplifier the normal way. Provided the soundcard has decent DACs, you'll enjoy higher quality sound than anything SoundStorm's dolby-digital output could provide.
  • linuxOwnzIfUrLeet - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    #44,45...

    It's at sam's club:

    It's made by infocus.

    The web shows "InFocus® ScreenPlay 4805" but I'm not sure the 4805 was the one. Their web is not the same stuff as what you have in the store.
  • bob661 - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    #44
    I was going to ask the same thing.

    #39
    SS is dead. Move on, nothing to see here.
  • OrSin - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    14# Where can I get a 76 DLP for 1400.
    Shit where can I get decent 76" HD of any kind of for $1400. I live in the USA. I really want to know. My 42in Toshiba HD is not cutting it and it cost me $1000.
  • xxeper - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    I love how you talk about how "bulky" the Windows Mobile [PocketPC, MPx] are while at the same time basically petting and licking the Windows Mobile smartphone [C500]. Did you even bother to pick up the BENq or iMat Jam phones? or were you too busy whispering sweet nothings to your P.O.S. Audiovox?
  • Live - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    #13

    The X800 you are linking to costs 450$ when its supposed to sell for 250$. and only that brand is available.
  • Zebo - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    AMD was curiously quiet throughout the show,
    ----------------
    Speak Softly and carry a big stick.:)
  • RyanVM - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - link

    #9, I read the exact same thing in Maximum PC three months ago.
  • shinotenshi - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    The design team was disbanded, however many sources have already reported that the team was reconstitued. The design won't be finished by luck would have it, at the time the sony ps3 is done. As i said before, i don't this is a coincidence. the interest of sony(ps3,blu-ray) and nvidia(pushing pci-e, other markets, consumer, pci-e sound cards), are converging. If they can build a chip that can encode either DD++ or DTS+++ it would be an econnomic windfall.
  • dderidex - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    About that SN25P....nice Envy24 chip on it - but do we know anything about the DAC used?

    24/192 internal precision is useless if they pair it with a 16/48 DAC. If their was a Wolfson chip on that motherboard by the Envy24 chip...I would be *drooling*.
  • Reflex - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #36: I am not debating that. I am saying that you need to pay attention to his statement about 'a way that you won't expect'. For one, it won't be a nVidia developed solution. That I can guarantee you since there is NO DESIGN TEAM anymore. But you can choose to believe what you wish I suppose....
  • shinotenshi - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    SAN JOSE — Here at NVIDIA's Editor's Day event today, NVIDIA CEO Jen-Hsun Huang addressed questions about the company's plans for a possible second spin of its popular but ill-fated SoundStorm audio solution. Apparently, a reprise of SoundStorm will happen. Huang told the assembled press types, "We're gonna build SoundStorm 2. It's gonna be awesome." He was less clear on what form the next SoundStorm would take, saying that NVIDIA was still trying to figure out how to deliver SoundStorm as a product. Huang said, cryptically, that the new SoundStorm "will come in a way that you won't expect
  • shabby - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    14: the way our living room is arranged we needed a display that allowed viewing from an angle and needed to be thin, and this is where the dlp fell flat on its face. It was too dark and too thick, at least compared to a plasma.

    While plasma's do wear out over time, thraxes just proved that it takes a long long time.
  • Reflex - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    SoundStorm is completely dead. The group is disbanded and its members have found jobs in other parts of the company. This is a fact.

    Sound in nVidia's chipset solutions is not dead, however. From what I have heard though its just a license of Intel's Azalia spec. In other words: No different than the integrated sound that you get on any Intel chipset board nowadays.

    The SoundStorm solution that you all know from the NF/NF2 days is completely gone however, and it will NOT be making a comeback.
  • shinotenshi - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Well As i said, as being part of chipset its dead. but nvidia knows it can make a killing makeing add in sound boards. creative makes weak products let get real. The orginal soundstorm needed too much bandwidth to be done on pci. with PCI-E they have enough bandwidth to produce the card. Nvidia will be able to fund SS2 development becuase of its deal with the Ps3. The PS3 will need a high end sound chip because im sure sony is going to use it as means of spreading blu-ray introduction.
  • bob661 - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    I think the CEO of Nvidia is just trying to keep customers. He would lose a few by announcing that SS is totally dead. I would string you guys along until it didn't make a difference whether you bailed or not.
  • bob661 - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    The Inq isn't lying. They are reporting what's been told to them. That's they're job. Sometimes it's bum info.
  • knitecrow - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    On the soundstorm issue, I personally wouldn't believe AMD, Intel, Nvidia, or ATI... they have been known to lie when it suits their interests.

    **cough** 6800GT/ultra hardware mpeg2/WMV decoding **cough**

    There are conflicting reports to be sure, but I am more likey to believe those from close partners. I am sure the next soundstorm is going to be an intel azilla rehash to appease the masses.
  • shinotenshi - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Soundstorm is not dead, the chairman of nvidia confirm this himself. however i think its dead as far as being apart of a chipset. the chairman remarked that it would return in a suprising form.
    this has to the belief that either it will return as a seperate chip sutitable for add in sound boards, or interagrated in graphics cards. my bet is that it will return as a PCI-e card capable of encoding some the advance audio codecs that are apart of the blu-ray spec. I don't think it was a coincidence that the chairman of nvidia made the announcement shortly after it was revealed that nvidia would be doing the PS3's GPU.
  • sprockkets - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Forget using a DLP television, I want a DLP projector on a 100"+ screen.

    Oh well each has its advantages and disadvantages.

    Better not have any stationary images on a plasma I've heard :)
  • snorre - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #23: Well, so you're telling me that the Inquirer are deceiving us then whey reported the following less then a month ago:
    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20211

    "The good news for all of you Sound Storm 2 supporters is that Nvidia decided to get this audio back. It just prematurely announced it, as it will take Nvidia at least nine months to put it back to Southbridge. The decision has been made.

    Soundstorm 2 will come back but not before roughly the "fall" of 2005."
  • AtaStrumf - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    To my displeasure ATi has managed to get at least one product with their new RS300 chipset for Intel out the door. It's called:

    SHUTTLE ST62K ZEN Barebone

    It's could have been a fine product IF only they made it a little bigger so they could put in a PSU, which would enable them to power a graphics card in which case they would actually put in an AGP slot, which they didn't, hence it's a freakin' dead end machine if a word 3D games is in your vocabulary. The on-board 9100 IGP isn't as horrible as I feared, but it sure isn't what you would want to be stuck with, especially at that price.

    Why the hell get that thing them? Why not just get a laptop instead?!?!

    Do these people even think when designing such products?!?!

    Enough ranting.
  • bob661 - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #24
    It ain't happening. SS is dead and long gone. Accept it. Wallow in it. Order out for more.
  • Richthofen - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #23
    well The Nvidia CEO seems to tell a different story at least during the last conference call :)

    I don't believe for a second either that Nvidia is out of the sound business. They are out of that business right now but that doesn't have to be the case in the future.

    I would expect a comeback from them in the sound business once they have made a big step into the Intel chipset business or when they manage to combine sound technology with GPU technology.

  • Reflex - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #9: This has been confirmed multiple times for months now. In fact, the SoundStorm team was completely disbanded before the release of NF3 almost two years ago.

    I have stated it multiple times, its been both officially and unofficially confirmed before as well. I work for a large software company that has extensive dealings with nVidia. Specifically I work in the audio group, and believe me, the nVidia guys are long gone.

    You don't have to believe it, but we are now two chipsets past the last SS enabled one and a lot of people don't quite get it that SS is dead and buried. Will they continue to post about it when the nForce9 is released..?
  • thraxes - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #14

    While technically correct that the gases in Plasmas wear out with extended use, the effect is hardly noticeable.

    I work in a TV studio where we use Pioneer Plasmas and professional grade Barco DLP-RP monitors. The Barcos and the Pioneers have both been in almost continuos use for at least 8-12 hrs every day since 2001. Guess what: The Plasmas are still way way brighter than the DLPs. In fact, the DLPs are probably going to be replaced soon by... plasmas.

    Reasons:
    1: Brightness - especially when the DLPs are visible on Camera and need to show graphs etc. they are very lacking. Plasmas are bright enough for this and more importantly - camera angle independent. This is even after running them 12 hrs/day for 4 years.
    2: Cost of ownership. Run these machines over 12 hours a day EVERY DAY and the money starts to add up. The DLPs are slightly less expensive to buy but need the lamp replaced every few months which is comes to a significant amount of money over the lifetime of the unit. Energy consumption of DLP vs. Plasma is identical at about 400W. The DLP loses out because of your perceived advantage of "just changing the light bulb".
  • Phantronius - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Grrrr no PCI express cards till mid time this year? WTF is this?
  • SunLord - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    This is amusing but do we have any proof it was a dualcore and not just a dual system they called a dual core?
  • thraxes - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

  • thraxes - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

  • bhtooefr - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Me like the Shuttle set-top...

    Now, can we just get more ordinary P-M boards?
  • Chuckles - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Was VIA demoing their processors and boards?
  • miketheidiot - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    efficeon looked good, to bad transmeta might be going belly up.
  • linuxOwnzIfUrLeet - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    "we had a 46" samsung and gave it right back, viewing from the side looks dark"



    Do you know anything about plasma vs DLP?

    DLP's only life problem is you'll have to buy a new bulb.

    plasma's problem is that it will continue to go darker and darker until the gas runs out of energy.

    You don't like the dark of dlp you aint gonna like the dark of plasma.

    #############################################

    Plasma - can't change the gas- no refills - no recharging. Continue to get darker picture.

    Dlp - change a bulb.



    Plasma - spend lots of money know and throw away soon.


    Today, I can get a 76" dlp for $1400 with <2cm display thickness.
  • Illissius - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    "The Radeon X800 will be available in the first week of February"
    That's odd. What's this, then?
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?desc...
  • Ardan - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Thanks for that link :D. I thought those MGE cases looked great as well and made me interested in what they have been making lately.
  • KristopherKubicki - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    danidentity: http://www.xgbox.com/

    Kristopher
  • Houdani - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Was the second image on the very last page messed up for anyone else? I could only see the top 10% of the image and the rest was blacked out. The image is supposed to show the MGE cases. The text just above the image is...

    "MGE also demonstrated a more sleek lineup of cases, a welcome change from the overly busy gaming cases that we've seen far too much of lately:"
  • snorre - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    "The entire Sound Storm division at NVIDIA has been shut down and thus NVIDIA's Intel solution will have HD Audio support, but we will not see the return of Dolby Digital Encoding support or NVIDIA's Sound Storm DSP."

    I don't believe this for a second. Can someone please confirm or deny this claim? Thanks!
  • Cat - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    What does the phrase '10 ft UI optimized' mean when talking about Prince of Persia?
  • oupei - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #3, #4 you may not like the image but I don't see any plasmas hitting 1080p. Personally, I don't care for RPTVs of any type, but I'm sure hoping that the xHD3 makes it to front projectors without incidence.
  • zeroreality - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    from page 14:
    "the Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers are quite happy with nForce4 on the AMD side and they'd rather not produce any more Intel motherboards that won't sell, so ATI loses out."

    the Xpress200 isn't an intel chipset...?
    did any of the manufacturers say anything about the Xpress200 southbridge?
  • danidentity - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    I really like those MGE cases. I can't seem to find their website though, anyone got a link?
  • Koing - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    #3 Shabby some people just like the 'image' of the dlp's. Some don't and I am in that category. I don't like exactly the things you have mentioned also. Also I am in England and they don't make any decent dlp's anyway :P

    Hopefully I'll be getting a Pioneer 43XDE plasma in mid March sometime :D

    Koing
  • shabby - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Meh whats the big deal with dlp's?
    We had a 46" samsung and gave it right back, viewing from the side looks dark, samething if your a bit above the set or below.
    And when you're staring at it dead on it blinds you with its bright lamp.
    So we settled for a pioneer plasma set and its perfect, much richer colors then the dlp we had.
  • bmetzger - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    any video coverage i can download? interested in that media center PC.
  • KeithDust2000 - Monday, January 10, 2005 - link

    Anand, "We also asked Intel if they had any tricks up their sleeve for regaining the definitive performance crown next year - unfortunately their answer was no."

    You probably meant to say "this year" (2005), and not next.

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