This feels like a weird move by Samsung. But if Samsung is doing it make sense assuming this means C and D chips are more than good enough for most applications. While the high end money maker segment that is the sever market will continue utilizing A chips when performance and density matter.
It makes sense for Samsung. b-die density is too low and they can make more money from higher density A-die and slower, easier to make C and D die. Server memory is not really high performance anyway. They run standard speeds, not the overclocked XMP profiles or regular DDR4 performance memory.
likely because they are "too good" so they instead focus on others that likely just hit rated spec (in most cases) I heard the B die not as good multi-channel kits vs some of the other ones who while not as "tight" could handle more capacity (vs many sticks) more easily then B die were capable of.
who knows, more often than not, the only "real"? info we have is from customer feedback or the often "in best case circumstance" information from the product maker in question (which is often all over the place in regards to "actual" real world numbers.
so all the mem makers basically cut production way back from 2019 because of "industry slowdown" (basically they got nailed for price fixing, slow production down have no choice price be right back up if not more after the fact)
is Sammy, so could be the fancy FlarX with awesome C14 at 3200 will be replaced with 3200 at CL16 likely next to no overclock/tighten or some crud.....I not put past them, replace great with mehhh for same price....
I suppose it depends upon use case, but I have 4x8GB of cas 14 @ 3200 b die. No issues here and wicked fast performance on Z390. Maybe it’s not good as 8x8GB like on threadripper? And that’s an edge case scenario.
I'm guessing it's down to it being their oldest 8gb die (their model convention means the C and D dies are newer versions); which makes it the logical one to retire to free fab space as they ramp up on higher capacity 16gb dies instead. Overclocking ram is too niche a product to justify keeping lines open if the C/D dies are more cost effective to produce for the mainstream products that take 99% of the output.
At least for NAND, Samsung's generation numbering starts with M then proceeds through A, B, C, etc. And each capacity is numbered separately, so a 16Gb A die can usually be expected to be built on a much newer process than an 8Gb A die.
The only explanation might be that B-dies cost more money than they make, barely break even or are marginally profitable. So Samsung apparently decided that they are not worth the cost, their time and/or the wafers they need to spend on them, in the place of wafers for more mainstream and server memory dies, from which their DRAM business makes almost all the money anyway.
However optics and marketing wise this is a bad move. Overclockers might be a tiny niche subset of their memory clients but they tend to stir disproportionally loud "noise". This is why even many non overclockers have known about the quality of Samsung's DRAM. Quality of niche products slowly builds up positive feedback for Samsung's brand in general, or at least their memory business (DRAM and possibly flash as well).
Why would Samsung kill that is beyond me. This reminds me of kiosks in my country. Generally you can divide my country's kiosks in two categories : the professional and the amateurs. There is one key difference between them that applies in almost all the cases. The amateurs do not sell bus tickets "because they are not profitable". On the contrary, the professionals sell bus tickets despite their very low profit. Why? Because 9 out 10 times when someone goes to a kiosk to buy tickets they will also buy something else. The reverse is happens with the amateurs. If people are told they sell no tickets 9 out 10 times they leave without buying anything.
You can immediately recognize a professional kiosk. They are posh and very busy. And 99% of times these guys sell bus tickets. Amateur kiosks, in contrast, look like they've seen better days many decades ago, noone wants to go to them unless they have to, and by now I can *smell* the upcoming "Sorry, we do not sell tickets" line from many meters away. A professional kiosk owner told me about the "tickets vs no tickets" difference 20 to 25 years ago and since then I've been amazed about how right he was. Samsung should not stop selling "tickets".
99% of DRAM is sold directly to device manufacturers and I am sure they do not care about what overclocking people post on forums.
And the RAM sold directly to consumers isn't branded by the company making the chips. People buy Crucial or HyperX RAM, not Samsung or Micron. And those companies rarely if ever even say who their DRAM supplier is.
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16 Comments
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Skeptical123 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
This feels like a weird move by Samsung. But if Samsung is doing it make sense assuming this means C and D chips are more than good enough for most applications. While the high end money maker segment that is the sever market will continue utilizing A chips when performance and density matter.Gasaraki88 - Wednesday, May 15, 2019 - link
It makes sense for Samsung. b-die density is too low and they can make more money from higher density A-die and slower, easier to make C and D die. Server memory is not really high performance anyway. They run standard speeds, not the overclocked XMP profiles or regular DDR4 performance memory.Dragonstongue - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
likely because they are "too good" so they instead focus on others that likely just hit rated spec (in most cases)I heard the B die not as good multi-channel kits vs some of the other ones who while not as "tight" could handle more capacity (vs many sticks) more easily then B die were capable of.
who knows, more often than not, the only "real"? info we have is from customer feedback or the often "in best case circumstance" information from the product maker in question (which is often all over the place in regards to "actual" real world numbers.
so all the mem makers basically cut production way back from 2019 because of "industry slowdown" (basically they got nailed for price fixing, slow production down have no choice price be right back up if not more after the fact)
is Sammy, so could be the fancy FlarX with awesome C14 at 3200 will be replaced with 3200 at CL16 likely next to no overclock/tighten or some crud.....I not put past them, replace great with mehhh for same price....
frozen_water - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
I suppose it depends upon use case, but I have 4x8GB of cas 14 @ 3200 b die. No issues here and wicked fast performance on Z390. Maybe it’s not good as 8x8GB like on threadripper? And that’s an edge case scenario.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
I'm guessing it's down to it being their oldest 8gb die (their model convention means the C and D dies are newer versions); which makes it the logical one to retire to free fab space as they ramp up on higher capacity 16gb dies instead. Overclocking ram is too niche a product to justify keeping lines open if the C/D dies are more cost effective to produce for the mainstream products that take 99% of the output.svan1971 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
"it's down to it being their oldest 8gb die" that would be A die and they aren't EOL.Rudde - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Are you sure that A-die isn't EOL already? They can't be found on the chart.Billy Tallis - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
At least for NAND, Samsung's generation numbering starts with M then proceeds through A, B, C, etc. And each capacity is numbered separately, so a 16Gb A die can usually be expected to be built on a much newer process than an 8Gb A die.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
8gb A is long gone.16gb A is new (the lettering restarts with each new capacity).
Opencg - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
thank youSirMaster - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Dang this sucks I think.I bought 3000MHz CL14 B-Die for relatively cheap and overclocked it to 4000MHz CL16 with ease. B-Die is really truely awesome.
I hope the new A-Die is as good.
wrkingclass_hero - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Crazy, I read about this so long ago I thought it was here.Santoval - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
The only explanation might be that B-dies cost more money than they make, barely break even or are marginally profitable. So Samsung apparently decided that they are not worth the cost, their time and/or the wafers they need to spend on them, in the place of wafers for more mainstream and server memory dies, from which their DRAM business makes almost all the money anyway.However optics and marketing wise this is a bad move. Overclockers might be a tiny niche subset of their memory clients but they tend to stir disproportionally loud "noise". This is why even many non overclockers have known about the quality of Samsung's DRAM. Quality of niche products slowly builds up positive feedback for Samsung's brand in general, or at least their memory business (DRAM and possibly flash as well).
Why would Samsung kill that is beyond me. This reminds me of kiosks in my country. Generally you can divide my country's kiosks in two categories : the professional and the amateurs. There is one key difference between them that applies in almost all the cases. The amateurs do not sell bus tickets "because they are not profitable".
On the contrary, the professionals sell bus tickets despite their very low profit. Why? Because 9 out 10 times when someone goes to a kiosk to buy tickets they will also buy something else. The reverse is happens with the amateurs. If people are told they sell no tickets 9 out 10 times they leave without buying anything.
You can immediately recognize a professional kiosk. They are posh and very busy. And 99% of times these guys sell bus tickets. Amateur kiosks, in contrast, look like they've seen better days many decades ago, noone wants to go to them unless they have to, and by now I can *smell* the upcoming "Sorry, we do not sell tickets" line from many meters away. A professional kiosk owner told me about the "tickets vs no tickets" difference 20 to 25 years ago and since then I've been amazed about how right he was. Samsung should not stop selling "tickets".
notashill - Wednesday, May 15, 2019 - link
99% of DRAM is sold directly to device manufacturers and I am sure they do not care about what overclocking people post on forums.And the RAM sold directly to consumers isn't branded by the company making the chips. People buy Crucial or HyperX RAM, not Samsung or Micron. And those companies rarely if ever even say who their DRAM supplier is.
Thanny - Friday, May 17, 2019 - link
This is fake news.See the full Samsung document here:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi/...
The screenshot above is just one table clipped out. On the very same page is another table showing two B-die SKU's that are not EOL.
And below that are tables showing many memory modules using B-dies that are not EOL, among those that are EOL.
Samsung B-die memory is not going away.
Gastec - Saturday, February 8, 2020 - link
Scaremongering to help the sales of "B-die" DIMM's from G.Skill and Corsair.