Wow, nice attempt to sweep the monitor's other big features such as 240hz, Freesync, and ELMB modes under the rug.
Next you'll complain that Mazda had the audacity to sell a 1.2L engine sports car for $50K, but completely fail to mention that it's turbocharged and a rotary engine, which allows it to pull similar horsepower/torque numbers as competitors, at a fraction of the curb weight.
The case in point is that pointing out one spec as being "bad" in a vacuum isn't inherently a good argument since it's being taken out of context of every other performance metric associated with that product. That's why I made the RX-7 analogy. In a vacuum, you might say 1.2L engines offer poor power, but taken in context that a rotary engine is in use, along with turbocharging, the final performance metrics matter a lot more than one cherry picked thing that someone didn't happen to like.
Complain that it's TN sure, but it's 240hz (not seen on IPS beyond 165hz and only though display overclocking), and has additional Freesync and ELMB features which add to the performance of the monitor in question.
The only inherently poor thing about TN is that it washes colors out at an angle, particularly when viewed from the bottom, which doesn't particularly matter for fixed location desktop users, as your keyboard and mouse and desk will all be used from a fixed viewing position anyways.
>But IPS has better colors!! Yes, when the display manufacturer either chooses a 10-bit addressable panel, or specifically tunes the monitor to be designer/creative work oriented. The high refresh rate IPS panels are 8-bit don't have a color gamut that's any higher than high refresh TN panels.
The current pick-your-poison for high refresh rate panels is that you either go TN and color washes out when you're trying to view your monitor away from your desk position or you go IPS and suffer from extra-terrible backlight bleeding (which has affected every single 144hz+ IPS panel on the market to date, but in particular the Asus model(s) such as the PG279Q which have a poor seal on the thin bezels). Both TN and IPS models can be color calibrated to standard sRGB color space equivalently well (~98%+), but the fact of the matter is that when you're looking at the monitor straight on, the TN panel variations don't suffer from backlight bleeding whereas you're playing monitor roulette for any IPS panel variant and hope the backlight bleeding you get is less severe than others.
It's always refreshing to read a comment and feel like my understanding of the universe is that much better. I thought I was pretty well-versed in display tech, but you, sir, added significantly to my understanding today. Thank you.
Well, don't confuse backlight bleed with IPS glow. Color gamut is much more a function of the backlight used (CCFL, wLEDs, RBG LEDs) and the bitrate of the panel, not of the actual panel technology, that's right. I have to disagree with you assessment of IPS vs TN to some degree though. My old 24" 1920x1200 TN monitor (HP w2408h I think) had a noticeable color/contrast shift when looking straight ahead from a normal viewing distance (~50cm) between the top and bottom. That is what is keeping me away from TN panels at that size. IPS displays have their issues as well, but the only thing that is inherent in the technology is IPS glow and slower pixel response. BLB is an QC issue, not an IPS issue, so it isn't a plus for TN panels either, like you make it sound.
Where you can look at a monitor, dead center, and notice that a dark color (easily seen with pure black) shows a variety of clouding of other colors, typically at the corners. It essentially means that there is extreme variance in the color output produced by the monitor due various areas being brighter than the other.
IPS Glow is just a whitening/halo-like glow of the image when seeing particularly dark scenes off center. IPS Glow is just part of the IPS panel package, and there's nothing really escaping that trait. Just as when seeing TN panels there's distinct color shift off-axis. IPS glow is traditionally seen as more favorable than otherwise having TN color-shifting.
The problem is that the sheer majority of the high refresh rate panels we're seeing are being manufactured by one panel company: AU Optronics. AU Optronics' TN panels and their correlated monitors manufactured by partners haven't suffered the same degree of backlight bleeding that their IPS panel variants have. This isn't a problem unique to the PG279Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mje_fmayu0k) even though THAT specific model has gotten a lot of coverage. This ALSO happens commonly to monitors like the Acer XB271HU using the exact same panel, although to lesser degree since they have a better seal on the panel and backlight.
> have to disagree with you assessment of IPS vs TN to some degree though. My old 24" 1920x1200 TN monitor (HP w2408h I think) had a noticeable color/contrast shift when looking straight ahead from a normal viewing distance (~50cm) between the top and bottom.
And I wouldn't disagree with you there, many old TN monitors were pretty bad. But you should take a step outside, walk into a Best Buy or other computer electronics store and take a look at current, modern high-refresh rate TN panels like the Dell S2716DG. They're surprisingly not as poor in regards to color shifting as older TNs, and the contrast and color space looks just adequate for sRGB content. It's no 10 or 12-bit RGB LED backlit designer monitor, nor is it OLED, but for standard sRGB content at a ~1:1000 contrast ratio, it looks very comparable to a similar sRGB 1:1000 contrast ratio IPS, outside of color shifting at extreme angles.
So when you are on the market for 144hz monitors, it's literally a question of whether you're picking something that will generally have next to no backlight bleed but suffers from some amount of color shift (TN). OR a monitor that you're playing roulette for varying degrees of backlight bleed, but fare much better towards color shifting (IPS). If you're going to be using exclusively from your desktop, it's pretty logical to favor the TN, given all the other metrics are relatively equal.
Until Sharp, LG, or Samsung, or AU Optronics start developing alternative high refresh rate IPS panels, this is the reality of the current high-refresh rate IPS vs TN monitor market right now. I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love for there to be a 120hz 4K IPS monitor with inky blacks from backlight zones to exist right now, but that's not where we are quite yet.
>Yes, when the display manufacturer either chooses a 10-bit addressable panel, or specifically tunes the monitor to be designer/creative work oriented. The high refresh rate IPS panels are 8-bit don't have a color gamut that's any higher than high refresh TN panels.
Problem with calibrating a TN panel is that the color depends on angle, so unless you look at the same angle as your calibrator (which does not necessarily have angular acceptance as your eyes), your calibration will be off.
Just stop talking about the rx7, no one said its engine makes poor power. The rx7's engine is basically a 2.6L because it has 1 power stroke per revolution compared to a regular engine having 1 power stroke every two revolutions. 100hp per liter was the norm for almost every turbo charged 90's import engine, so 255hp from basically a 2.6L was not poor.
Maybe one day you'll learn to read and stop taking a comment out of context. Please re-read:
>In a vacuum, you might say 1.2L engines offer poor power, but taken in context that a rotary engine is in use, along with turbocharging, the final performance metrics matter a lot more than one cherry picked thing that someone didn't happen to like.
For some people, those features aren't worth the cost, just like owning an RX-7 isn't worth the high cost of ownership and the inherent faults of a rotary.
I would personally rather have a 144Hz IPS panel than 240Hz TN.
Sounds like you've never used a quality TN panel. At extreme viewing angles there is still noticeable color quality differences, but my TN gaming panel has near identical image quality to my dell ultrasharp IPS panel sitting right next to it. I think the only people who would notice a difference are professionals and those who are trying to be pretentious.
Reading all the comments above, complaining about the TN panel and whatnot...
It's safe to assume that this product is not targeted at the majority of the readers of this website, myself included, but eSports players instead (or players who want to make use of the product's benefits).
I will not deny that an IPS or even a VA panel has much better color accuracy over a TN. But IPS/VA even overclocked to 120Hz+ have an issue that is not present on TN: motion blur due to slower pixel shift.
There are several videos out there reviewing high refresh rate panels using IPS/VA panels for gaming, and most of them point out its shortcomings. For a high-end player making money out of playing those games, that's not acceptable. Those guys are, most of the time, stuck to TN.
PLEASE ASUS!!! we need the RGB on the PG258G Too, i beg u, i dont need more than 24inch and 1080p but the FreeSync one looks Great unlike the GSync one
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xchaotic - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
$449 for a 24" TN 1080p panel, what a bargain....JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Wow, nice attempt to sweep the monitor's other big features such as 240hz, Freesync, and ELMB modes under the rug.Next you'll complain that Mazda had the audacity to sell a 1.2L engine sports car for $50K, but completely fail to mention that it's turbocharged and a rotary engine, which allows it to pull similar horsepower/torque numbers as competitors, at a fraction of the curb weight.
shabby - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Horrible comparison with the rx7.JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Would you rather a food analogy be made?The case in point is that pointing out one spec as being "bad" in a vacuum isn't inherently a good argument since it's being taken out of context of every other performance metric associated with that product. That's why I made the RX-7 analogy. In a vacuum, you might say 1.2L engines offer poor power, but taken in context that a rotary engine is in use, along with turbocharging, the final performance metrics matter a lot more than one cherry picked thing that someone didn't happen to like.
Complain that it's TN sure, but it's 240hz (not seen on IPS beyond 165hz and only though display overclocking), and has additional Freesync and ELMB features which add to the performance of the monitor in question.
The only inherently poor thing about TN is that it washes colors out at an angle, particularly when viewed from the bottom, which doesn't particularly matter for fixed location desktop users, as your keyboard and mouse and desk will all be used from a fixed viewing position anyways.
>But IPS has better colors!!
Yes, when the display manufacturer either chooses a 10-bit addressable panel, or specifically tunes the monitor to be designer/creative work oriented. The high refresh rate IPS panels are 8-bit don't have a color gamut that's any higher than high refresh TN panels.
The current pick-your-poison for high refresh rate panels is that you either go TN and color washes out when you're trying to view your monitor away from your desk position or you go IPS and suffer from extra-terrible backlight bleeding (which has affected every single 144hz+ IPS panel on the market to date, but in particular the Asus model(s) such as the PG279Q which have a poor seal on the thin bezels). Both TN and IPS models can be color calibrated to standard sRGB color space equivalently well (~98%+), but the fact of the matter is that when you're looking at the monitor straight on, the TN panel variations don't suffer from backlight bleeding whereas you're playing monitor roulette for any IPS panel variant and hope the backlight bleeding you get is less severe than others.
Sivar - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
It's always refreshing to read a comment and feel like my understanding of the universe is that much better.I thought I was pretty well-versed in display tech, but you, sir, added significantly to my understanding today. Thank you.
Death666Angel - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Well, don't confuse backlight bleed with IPS glow. Color gamut is much more a function of the backlight used (CCFL, wLEDs, RBG LEDs) and the bitrate of the panel, not of the actual panel technology, that's right.I have to disagree with you assessment of IPS vs TN to some degree though. My old 24" 1920x1200 TN monitor (HP w2408h I think) had a noticeable color/contrast shift when looking straight ahead from a normal viewing distance (~50cm) between the top and bottom. That is what is keeping me away from TN panels at that size. IPS displays have their issues as well, but the only thing that is inherent in the technology is IPS glow and slower pixel response. BLB is an QC issue, not an IPS issue, so it isn't a plus for TN panels either, like you make it sound.
JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
When I say backlight bleed, I am specifically referring to this:https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=backl...
Where you can look at a monitor, dead center, and notice that a dark color (easily seen with pure black) shows a variety of clouding of other colors, typically at the corners. It essentially means that there is extreme variance in the color output produced by the monitor due various areas being brighter than the other.
IPS Glow is just a whitening/halo-like glow of the image when seeing particularly dark scenes off center. IPS Glow is just part of the IPS panel package, and there's nothing really escaping that trait. Just as when seeing TN panels there's distinct color shift off-axis. IPS glow is traditionally seen as more favorable than otherwise having TN color-shifting.
The problem is that the sheer majority of the high refresh rate panels we're seeing are being manufactured by one panel company: AU Optronics. AU Optronics' TN panels and their correlated monitors manufactured by partners haven't suffered the same degree of backlight bleeding that their IPS panel variants have. This isn't a problem unique to the PG279Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mje_fmayu0k) even though THAT specific model has gotten a lot of coverage. This ALSO happens commonly to monitors like the Acer XB271HU using the exact same panel, although to lesser degree since they have a better seal on the panel and backlight.
> have to disagree with you assessment of IPS vs TN to some degree though. My old 24" 1920x1200 TN monitor (HP w2408h I think) had a noticeable color/contrast shift when looking straight ahead from a normal viewing distance (~50cm) between the top and bottom.
And I wouldn't disagree with you there, many old TN monitors were pretty bad. But you should take a step outside, walk into a Best Buy or other computer electronics store and take a look at current, modern high-refresh rate TN panels like the Dell S2716DG. They're surprisingly not as poor in regards to color shifting as older TNs, and the contrast and color space looks just adequate for sRGB content. It's no 10 or 12-bit RGB LED backlit designer monitor, nor is it OLED, but for standard sRGB content at a ~1:1000 contrast ratio, it looks very comparable to a similar sRGB 1:1000 contrast ratio IPS, outside of color shifting at extreme angles.
So when you are on the market for 144hz monitors, it's literally a question of whether you're picking something that will generally have next to no backlight bleed but suffers from some amount of color shift (TN). OR a monitor that you're playing roulette for varying degrees of backlight bleed, but fare much better towards color shifting (IPS). If you're going to be using exclusively from your desktop, it's pretty logical to favor the TN, given all the other metrics are relatively equal.
Until Sharp, LG, or Samsung, or AU Optronics start developing alternative high refresh rate IPS panels, this is the reality of the current high-refresh rate IPS vs TN monitor market right now. I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love for there to be a 120hz 4K IPS monitor with inky blacks from backlight zones to exist right now, but that's not where we are quite yet.
saratoga4 - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
>Yes, when the display manufacturer either chooses a 10-bit addressable panel, or specifically tunes the monitor to be designer/creative work oriented. The high refresh rate IPS panels are 8-bit don't have a color gamut that's any higher than high refresh TN panels.Problem with calibrating a TN panel is that the color depends on angle, so unless you look at the same angle as your calibrator (which does not necessarily have angular acceptance as your eyes), your calibration will be off.
shabby - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Just stop talking about the rx7, no one said its engine makes poor power. The rx7's engine is basically a 2.6L because it has 1 power stroke per revolution compared to a regular engine having 1 power stroke every two revolutions.100hp per liter was the norm for almost every turbo charged 90's import engine, so 255hp from basically a 2.6L was not poor.
JoeyJoJo123 - Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - link
"no one said its engine makes poor power"Maybe one day you'll learn to read and stop taking a comment out of context. Please re-read:
>In a vacuum, you might say 1.2L engines offer poor power, but taken in context that a rotary engine is in use, along with turbocharging, the final performance metrics matter a lot more than one cherry picked thing that someone didn't happen to like.
Morawka - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Wait for the new Asus Quantum Dot Monitors that got delayed. They have 200hz, IPS colors, with TN latency. It's the best of both worlds.Inteli - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
For some people, those features aren't worth the cost, just like owning an RX-7 isn't worth the high cost of ownership and the inherent faults of a rotary.I would personally rather have a 144Hz IPS panel than 240Hz TN.
HiroshiTrinn - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
What i'd give for a 30"+ (minimum) 2560x1600 ips quality screen with these refresh rates.Alistair - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
None of those other features matter if it is a TN monitor. TN is really that bad!inighthawki - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Sounds like you've never used a quality TN panel. At extreme viewing angles there is still noticeable color quality differences, but my TN gaming panel has near identical image quality to my dell ultrasharp IPS panel sitting right next to it. I think the only people who would notice a difference are professionals and those who are trying to be pretentious.Ninhalem - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Yeah TN .... nope. I value my eyeballs and not making my vision worse.LordanSS - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
Reading all the comments above, complaining about the TN panel and whatnot...It's safe to assume that this product is not targeted at the majority of the readers of this website, myself included, but eSports players instead (or players who want to make use of the product's benefits).
I will not deny that an IPS or even a VA panel has much better color accuracy over a TN. But IPS/VA even overclocked to 120Hz+ have an issue that is not present on TN: motion blur due to slower pixel shift.
There are several videos out there reviewing high refresh rate panels using IPS/VA panels for gaming, and most of them point out its shortcomings. For a high-end player making money out of playing those games, that's not acceptable. Those guys are, most of the time, stuck to TN.
firerod1 - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
My IPS ultrawide has 1ms ULMB mode!inighthawki - Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - link
Time to break out the good old CRT :)Morawka - Monday, November 27, 2017 - link
More Gsync, Less Freesync Asus!HanaLover - Thursday, December 21, 2017 - link
PLEASE ASUS!!! we need the RGB on the PG258G Too, i beg u, i dont need more than 24inch and 1080p but the FreeSync one looks Great unlike the GSync one